On 4th February, Satya Nadella announced Microsoft Viva and something changed. This wasn't a pure focus on new technology, this was a focus on Employee Experience, this was a platform to bring together a set of services in a simple way to improve life for employees. We are joined this week by Steve Adams, CEO for CPS, to talk about what this means.
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On 4th February, Satya Nadella announced Microsoft Viva and something changed. This wasn't a pure focus on new technology, this was a focus on Employee Experience, this was a platform to bring together a set of services in a simple way to improve life for employees. We are joined this week by Steve Adams, CEO for CPS, to talk about what this means.
We cover:
Useful links:
Photo by D A V I D S O N L U N A on Unsplash
The Grey Hat Beard podcast. Hello and welcome to Part 2 of the Grey Happy podcast. We're onto episode 27. We talked about the news in part one to do go back and listen to that. If you haven't 'cause in this half were going to be Livin La Viva Loca, I need to keep saying vyvan not vivo and getting that right way. Because if you haven't heard, Microsoft announced last Thursday, which was the what's 4th of February. A new product and it was Microsoft Fever. Now some people have heard about before it. Some will listen to it and heard four different pillars that come as part of it, which will talk in a sack. And stick Digital View was especially from those who live very close to the industry and work closely with it was don't quite get it there. A whole load of things in there that have been announced before there was part of it which sounded like Project Cortex part of it that was just LinkedIn learning in another way. Another part that was all about the columns aspects of there, and I don't think I'm going to wrap Gary too much into it, but he was kind of when he heard initially about it. Without going into detail, was a little underwhelmed and didn't quite. See where the value was. But then you read an article that there really change your your view in it, which was about the business value of of some of this. Yeah, I think I think my kind of view of it from the beginning. I don't think you know it was shared by many other people as well onto everything. So there was a lot of a lot of confusion from people who have been, you know, around the 365 space for it for a long time as well. So I think you know that it was a little bit confusing. It was kind of like it's just the same old stuff that we know, right? Just kind of thrown together in a package. Is it that much different? But then you know I equals come out one article in particular. Josh bersin. Basically it was set the scene you know talking about. You know why this is such a big deal for the industry. It's a huge shakeup. There's going to be a lot of disruption as well. And and I think as you read the article, which will link in the show notes, you'll see that this isn't just a reaction. OK of like, Oh well, we've got teams, and we've got these. These, you know, work, workplace, analytics, and all these are the systems. And yeah, we'll just throw them together. It's years in the making. And when you look at it and you look at, you know, going back through the acquisitions that Microsoft have made as well over the years, like LinkedIn coming kind of back into the for now, you know, the whole learning piece that's in there, so you know if you are kind of thinking. I don't really get it at the moment. Read that article. I can guarantee you by the end you will. You will understand why it's going to be such a big thing absolutely. And I think for those who maybe haven't heard about Microsoft feet there. There are four pillars to it that are coming through that really, where the functionality comes out around it and the others that Viva topics, which is about getting the knowledge from your organization. Viva Connections, which is very much. You're almost bit bit like your old intranet. Then if I want to say that, but it's personalized, focused on you getting the connections with real people based on who you are and what you want to see the Viva learning, which is about getting that learning content that's appropriate to you to appropriate to what you do. Getting in front of you from everywhere and Aviva Insights, which is the balance, productivity and well being. And that's pulling together a lot of that workplace analytics that personal analytics deep the headspace integration that comes through with those so from technical point of view those are the four pillars but I don't think that's really what we want to talk about today and why we've got Steve. Here is what the real value to Microsoft Fever is to people. That's good stuff, yeah. I'm so I'm like I like Gary, who 2 two questions question was all about. I think it took me about 30 seconds into. Since his presentation to message Alan saying how we are we ready for this. We are the program 'cause it's been announced the last officially. Bicyclist I may be slightly different and I and I think the article that you referenced Justice Article, I think, is it's. It sums it up from a technology standpoint and positions it well. It has been in the making for a long time. Lots of acquisitions. They make sense, but fundamentally I guess I look at all of the technology releases from a from a different perspective with a business lens as opposed to the technology itself. And as a leader of a business, particularly services organization, I think it's it's fundamental to focus on employee engagement. It's paramount to our success as an organization. And when you think about the sector as a whole, services industries is huge, so it might be controversial to say. But for me, employee Happiness is an important part of. It's important parts, probably more important than our customers. At the end of the day, I customers are essentially. Buying services, buying expertise from the organization and and the very people who are delivering those services need to be in a. Uh, the right in the right frame of mind they need to feel safe and engaged and trust it. If you're in that space, then as an employee in any organization, if you're if you are valued by the organization, if you are aligned to the company goals, if you're. Safer, able to express yourself fully in the workplace. Then you're going to deliver more. Laura, the customer outcome that they're looking for then, but if not, you'll feel that you're able to express yourself. You'll go beyond not because you have to because you want to do with your thoroughly enjoying where you are and what you're doing. That's why people take exams at 10:00 o'clock on a Saturday night, right? But if you Jim Lea technology platform would not give that so why? Why do you think this would be any different? You know, is this not just? Taking that fluffy, let's make sure employees appearance is important, and let's pretend that some of the things we're already doing is is part of that. What do you feel? This is different as well. Yeah, I think it's for me. It's different because. Microsoft is looking at. This is a platform. This is a seismic change. This is the way I think, said she referred to it as as ERP in in the 80s. Looked it CRM with the sales focus in sorry there in the 90s for the European and the next decade for for CRM with the sales focus. But right now employees are fundamental. The last 12 months is accelerating the challenge that we as leaders of businesses have, which is when we're in the office were able to connect. We've been out of the office for for the last 12 months, and our organization has been out of the office for the last 12 months. Yeah, we've managed to sustain through a great deal of energy, commitment and level of engagement, and it's been a challenge and I guess the last four months is exacerbated. The problem that most? People better choose leaders of People, Department believes, and so forth. I struggled with multiple tools. Multiple web based tools from different vendors that have a different look and feel so. Microsoft a step back at a point in time sometime in the last. 5 plus years instead. Actually this is opportunity. If we bring all of these constituent parts together and deliver it as a unified. Experience familiar experience to the end user and. Make it easier to administer and manage. Then why wouldn't you jump up to this technology? And why would you not embrace this? Because? For a people leader. The technology is just that, it's a means to it to achieve the outcome they're looking at it from her. I need the technology to be easy to use and familiar to use, and it would be great if I didn't have to manage six different suppliers with various different interface points. That in itself is a challenge for localization, so if you can step back from it, build a platform. And even to manage how people get access to that, manage the understanding of where to go to. You know I go to this for that I go to this for that having that single platform simplifies it for the employee. It's one place to go to for it, but you also have to think you know, as as you rightly points out there, it's not something that's just been done in the last year as a knee jerk reaction to the situation we find ourselves in. You know you can look back and you can look back over the last five years even longer than that. And go, actually. They've been building this slowly but surely. They recognize that there is a strategic change that they need to make under the hood to enable this. And you know, when you look at, you know you think, back to things like delve and you think, well, that was a really weird change and it was kind of like. Well, actually you know this. This new concept of graph of linking people and artifacts and how it all worked and everybody kind of way. Alright, that's quite you. Now you look at it and you see where that's kind of evolved to with the workplace analytics. All of that data and how they can actually leverage that. And then you see something like this and go. Alright, so they've got the data. They've got a way to leverage and now they can actually provide it in a useful format that actually organisations can make the most of quickly and easily without having to implement a new system. It's it's built into what they've actually already started using on a day-to-day basis, and it's yeah, it's quite, uh, it's quite a shift for them. Little bit quite shift for organizations to go. One of those other tools. What do I actually need to compliment this and to feed into it? And you know, work with this, but that that is the magic to a lot of the things we're seeing. If we look at the the Viva learning it's not, you have to use Microsoft Tool for learning there. Working with SAP market SuccessFactors. They're working with Cornerstone. That's going to be providing that and I'm sure they're going to make sure that it can be very clear with those things on. You're not going to lose those brand names. They're going to make sure they work with partners that. To have that come through, but you've got one place to go to, it's going to be within teams you've got. I think the one thing I don't 100% understand is what is Viva? I think some people will kind of go. I don't get what this is, but this is all teams, isn't it? But I think there is a nice brand across all of it, and I think that brand will come through and it be anything that's within teams. That's about employee experience is going to be Viva, so you have that singular way of thinking about things. And I think that will steer the technology along with it as well so. Initially there may not be an obvious this is something, but you'll see all those elements come together and make sense because of that single brand name as well, I think that will make a big difference to people as to what they think about different different parts as well. Yeah, I think it feels. It feels like a movement. It feels like somebody's thanks, she said. Let's talk focus on the component constituent parts of the technology that's actually stand back. Put a platform together and actually go and talk and talk to business leaders. Understand exactly what challenges they have and and and right now and and maybe it's been accelerated. I'm I'm not sure why the last 12 months is definitely talked. A lot of people. Maybe open their eyes to a few challenges across their organizations I. Unfortunately, I believed in I have a longstanding belief that this this is. This is the core of any organization success right from. I was briefly introduction about having stones for nearly 30 years, not just in the Microsoft ecosystem but but actually outside of Microsoft industry, working for organizations where. Actually, the organization consists of 200,000 people in 75 countries. You roll the Clock back 25 years in that organization and said, how did the chief exec reach out to every single member of staff across the globe and deliver a consistent message? Um? Forget the pandemic from. I mean you're talking DVD's and CD's actually being distributed to organisations because there was no life broadcast. It was right everybody get together in little story and to watch the DVD that the CEO is telling us all about what's going on this year or it's been cascaded through various situations of emails time. The voice messages that would go out to people you get a voice message from the CEO to everyone at the same time and you just look back at that now, which wasn't that long ago. It's mad, correct, but I think I think if I if I if I think about and I felt cut off in the in the last 12 months. So I I consider myself to be easily approachable by anybody in our organization. And if they ask me a question that usually get a straight answer. As you guys have experienced. Put in. But the little things have been a challenge. Yeah, you think about some. If you're in the office, you stop and then you just stop by somebody's desk. You talk about the football, but once you're talking about the football, you're evaluating, the situation is the person happy and they can tend to be anxious. Very difficult to do that you reach out to the other teams or pick up the phone to them through teams and wiped out voice chat then. Sorry video chat. The chances are it's like PMDS reached out. That's going to be a problem. There is a preconceived idea that the MD is calling me therefore. But let's not waste the case. So actually you you become isolated. So I I think with with technologists or or the promise of quality, those offering around pulling all of those constituent components together so that we can. As a leader. At any level in the organization you can you put your finger on the pulse so you can see from the survey data that that actually the mood in the organization is is. Good for bad or inconsistent. You could look at. Building a culture where you're sharing content. This person and the individuals, even in this big Steven organization, you can still only to deliver content that is specific to you. All of those are good steps towards building an effective culture in an organization, and if you then add to the mix humility to bring in learning paths through a familiar interface where people can change their style for learning, come back to the exams on the Saturday night. That you're not restricted to a classroom where you gotta sit with ten other people as part of an induction process. You are able to build with it and gain and sustain a level of. Consistency across the organization in terms of why we're here. What's in it for me? How do I fit into the machine and? You belong, and I think that's that's what my hope is. That's why I was excited by my my theaters with either it was like. Well finally. A business centric solution that ties up. Business centric, different appointments. All of these pieces together. I think it's. I would say it just empowers your. People manage is your communication manages your marketing messages. Leaders in general to to actually deliver a consistent message and actually read that message. I understand and get the feedback on that message as well, which is which is pivotal so. And I think it's it's very much focused on the behavior as well. It's not just an HR system to manage, it's focused on actually how people engage what that behavior is identify. The points where you want to change that behavior to increase the well being of your workforce. I think that's that's one of the key things for it is how it actually does that. But it's all the familiar tools that were used to working with, but we're just working with them in a slightly different way. So it's it is really. I think it's a really exciting change that they're actually they're actually thinking about how technology works in this way at this level. For a platform this size. It would be intriguing to see what we're talking about in a years time, but it also be intriguing to see what comes out at Ignite, and you know, a months time, yeah, you know that. The timing of this announcement around it. You know it, kind of makes me think. They wouldn't have been able to release any Ignite session names. Without having made this announcement because they'll all have Viva in it, everything will be geared around how it's how it's coming together as a as a an experience platform, and I think the other bit is Steve. I thought there was great example you pop by someone in your chats football and you know you get those small body clues and things like that. You cannot get that easily remotely. Yeah, you can have those video calls or people you don't get quite the same thing. I think the Viva Insights to start to look at the Electronic ways of doing that. Are people sending fewer messages or more messages? Getting that electronic way, getting those plus points which bees offer is someone having too many meetings is having too few meetings. Getting those kind of mood of the organizations which you can't get if you're not all in one place but trying to get the electronic side of that. And I love with what we've insights that virtual commutes. They talk a lot about and you encourage people to have that reflection at the beginning and end of each day. And can you see where people are doing that because? If they're not finding time for doing that, people were getting fried and you can get those at all. Those little pointers that all adds up to a kind of feeling of how the organization is for the leadership team be making that decision is being driven by those metrics, not just you know, working out what they mean as well, but helping that steer some of the thoughts and conversations I think would be really, really powerful with it. Yeah. Sorry, I was I I don't know. I think I think when we first looked at workplace I'd only six as as a capability. It it it, isolation that look like a solution trying to find the problem. Yeah, and I could easily be interpreted as oh this is going to deep dive into what people are actually doing. How many connections are I like? How many people make communicating with this week inside my organization outside the organization and installation? That looks quite daunting because you could as an accountant look at the the broadsheets that go. Well, actually we don't look particularly efficient or effective. And if people, if we if we use that data to drive. Organizational efficiencies. Then you be very concerned about how that that information is. Isolation could be used in the organization. I think in this context it does exactly. That's exactly. What it's designed to do? It gives us that insight that we're not getting worse. We sat in the office and that goes beyond the pandemic because we spent a good 15 years, will keep working internationally with staffing. Yeah. Different time zones. In some cases, the other side of the planet you you rely on when you're picking up through email. Hi there communicating how they are across you know, video conferencing calls etc. That's pretty much what the last 12 months is be like. This as a as a platform I think gives. Or data, and I'm hopeful that that put in the right hands that data can be used to to really drive the right behaviors across the organization and really focus on on making sure we're providing that safe environment for employees to express themselves, which is what it's all about at the end of the day, you have to feel safe coming to work. That's part of that. Goodnight that I need a trust I need, I need that. What is it the mutual obligations from from the organization I need to believe that when I'm putting in, I beach treated fairly equally, I can express myself and and if I could do that in a safe environment, then I'm going to give more. Because I want to be at the horrible so it's for us as leaders and I think marriages in general, we've always struggled with this. If I can't talk to you, went to one. If I can't talk to you face to face. If I can't read those fully where those keep clues. Sorry there's queues then how am I actually going to establish what's going on in my organization? And the bigger your organization organization becomes, the more realize you are not individuals. To share their opinions and maybe their opinions are not always as clear as they need to be. So so having. Trusted the data. Having the right systems in place to to assess the mood. I think it's I think it's a great opportunity for organizations that have already got a fantastic culture and engagement model in place to sustain that build on that poster there, hoping that they have that, but I'm not sure how to measure it. I think will will get a lot from this and those that already know they've got work to do. It's a great way to measure. Basically where they are and set some plans in motion and see if they they can evolve. So I think it's. I said at the beginning of this year it's seismic and I think it it. It really is. I think it it propels Microsoft into another another space that Microsoft did not known for being witches. This is talking to you. The business this is talking to the business at a level where you're talking to the business leaders to say actually we can help you make your business more effective and more efficient. And a better place to be not through just switching technology or not by selling usable licenses. Well, actually. But there is, there is something different there about about what we're proposing. Is that right? This so I, I think we we talked about the last show. I think they announced just for we started Work Lab, which is affecting their magazine. Almost sharing how work works and that scientific element that numbers, and I think the Josh Bersin article sort fits in with that. It's not just here's the technology. It's understanding the science understanding the right thing, understanding the the ethos around this. And also Steve, you talked about making sure that data is in the right hands at the one thing. And I might be gullible but I trust Microsoft to kind of do the right thing. More the data they're talking so much about the ethics of artificial intelligence and the ethics of that data we saw with the productivity score that they made a change. They backtracked from having more the personal data. They kind of got. Yeah, actually, you're right, we shouldn't do this. They're listening to the right thing. I don't think you're perfect. Don't get me wrong, but there there there trying to expose some of the questions about it and making sure that we're there to do the right thing with this data, not make it available so that people can do the wrong thing and focus in the wrong areas. Well, I think it's really, I mean 'cause when they bought LinkedIn, there was a lot of concern or how they're going to use this data, and none of those fears have played out. Same with GitHub. Oh, how are they going to use all of this data? How are they going to change it? Both of those purchases came under a lot of scrutiny from the users. To actually use those systems and Microsoft prove themselves not to have messed with their or changed it, or broken it. Or done a Yammer and tried to rebuild it and integrate it completely. They've left them independent, but it also means that they've got a massive amount of data about how we work and you know, they probably the only organization on the planet with that scale of data where they can actually now say right where we want to get, you know, proper science done on this data, proper analysis done on this data. To actually influence what they say is best practice because it's proven by academics. Who are, you know, peer reviewed as opposed to what we've just kind of looked at the the 300,000 people? Well, no. Actually we're looking at three million a day. You know, 300,000,000 a day. So it's quite a different sort of starting point that they can actually go. We have the science to prove this and not many others have any science to disprove it. So I think the other side I love that they've also brought knowledge and learning into this the it's about sharing that knowledge internally. It's understanding what people are doing and providing the tools for people to be able to do things effectively. I mean we we have plenty of conversations. Gary and I have some great chats about how can we get that right knowledge from the people that have it to the people that need it at the right time and it's such a good way of doing that. And I think we knew Viva topics was coming in some form because of. Project Cortex and the bits there, but by then combining that with learning of saying his, here's what you need to know. He is learning to help you learn the right thing as well, but it's all part of the same story together. It works Better Together, and it certainly want one of the when it came to cortex and they talked about bringing out syntax and they talked about this knowledge, which is now become Viva topics or these different little small elements. And I can see if Steve kind of pulling a face you're right, there was all these different bits. That didn't mean much to people. Now it's combined together in a more. Consistent story, you can still get those different elements. We talk about selling lots of licenses. Viva is not going to be one big lump license. They have to spend hundreds on. You can work out what works best for you in the different areas so that I feel there is. Yes, it's going to be more money when we're not gullible. You get more functionality, you're gonna have to pay certain amounts for it, but you can work out which parts work for you and make that that sensible choice around it. And it feels like a good path forward with it up on that. Hopefully they will change the licensing model more fundamentally. So that you're not just buying levels of technology, you are actually buying, you know services at capabilities that are grouped together in a more logical way to actually so we try and remove some of these. These continual licensing challenges of technically, you can do this well. What does that actually give me as an end user, or as a business? Or well, technically, you can do this, yes, so I think there's an opportunity there for them to really revolutionize how they license it based on based on Viva as well. Yeah, from the technology side, that's that's the other thing as well, is that there's lots of you know. We've seen the wheel in Microsoft 365 Viva is going to be part of all of that wheel is is, you know that's the that's the single experience, right? It all has to go in that direction, which I think you know. Teams come along and given that to her to agree with, you know, SharePoint and the communications, this is just again kind of bringing the whole platform along so that it feels like there's more direction than there has been. I think I think that's going to be interesting to see how that. Plays out as well with all the different areas 'cause they said the four pillars. They are quite big areas just across Microsoft right? And the different product groups that there so you know, having that single product approach is definitely going to be a challenge, but you know, it's great to hear that they've been at this for years, which you know when you first hear it. You kind of think maybe a bit opportunity opportunistic, but it's definitely not so. It's going to be. It's going to be definitely interesting to see how. It carries on how vendors are going to change their approach to get into this platform as well. You know, rather than saying, don't go to Microsoft, come to us and be on the outside. It's more of well now we're just going to kind of go into into that platform. And you know, I think about I'm thinking will have Microsoft kind of built there like business. I don't want to call in App Store, but it's almost like that, right? It's it's like you go through the same thing and and you know you get to, yeah, whatever provider that you're using now. But but through this this one system. I think this place is, but I think there are lessons that have been learned on that one because. I think we we we work with at least four different providers in this space. So it's four different contracts for different engagements for different user interfaces and and if you're, you know if you're running. Any level of ITN organization. Then you look at this and say actually. Microsoft don't need to take all of those. Partner solutions and rule about David. They can provide a platform and you can connect them together. Then that actually that that's a more successful model. I think for adoption standpoint in the organization, I'll give you a unified interface that you can work with. And you can carry on working with those via providers for that content. We don't want to go and buy all of that content because that's that's painful. And also we don't want customers to have to. And contracts any or think about the additional change in the cost of change? Because this isn't just a license which. There is a fundamental cost to change an organization and any technology that organization is using. No. Instead of having to teach, you know having two to focus on. Asking the workforce to adopt four different interfaces for four different products and looking for different things. I can surface that through through teams through feedback then. Much easier and just to bring down that that cost of change is your changing platforms. You got your tell exchange it licenses but all that time lost the people training them up. That kind of re adjusting to things that thing you may not see quickly on your bottom line but easy is a real cost to everyone to the employee experience for everyone every time you keep changing that as well. So put into one place and I think Microsoft is doing that good job of providing options for partners to not only just provide the content but. Provide innovation within that as well. We've seen it with meetings, apps and things in teams, and I think we'll see exactly the same here that it's not just going to be here. Put your video in here for this. You're learning that could be in the future. Mixed reality. You can get mixed reality learning and they're providing different types of content, providing ways to connect him with our insight data and surfacing that to people in different way beyond to analyze that with your own special algorithms and surface that through insights, I think the future is being able to. Give people you're choosy, not just Microsoft, and I think that is you said it right, the beginning Steve. This is a platform and it's for partners, vendors, even organisations themselves to be able to plug into that platform is absolutely key. Yeah, it's it's exciting. I think it's it's exciting. I mean the the cost of the cost of change to an organization when implementing new technology is typically six times more than the stated. Implementation costs of the project because everybody forgets that you need to bring the workforce on the journey, every employee needs to adopt that new way of working so. If you can. Have a unified interface, a familiar interface, and actually the change that's being made is. Is is so much smaller. Um, but it changes. It changes the construct for partners. The opportunity they think that excites me the most is that we we are not just technology. Our solution provider, as an organization as a partner. We spend a large percentage of our time working with our customers to help their business adopt a different working practice. So we're working with those departments and for many years now, we've we've. We've had the challenge in this space is so can you build me a SharePoint solution to do? Add Internet, can you build me a SharePoint solutions? They're asking will be a power app to Dubai. The idea of I should be able to say here is a platform and what we will do now is work with you to adopt that working platform. Start to pull the data through and then start to understand the data so that we can actually help you as an organization increase your engagement. That's that's new territory. That really is consulting in in in the business consulting in the truest sense. That's a great opportunity for the partner community out there to look at this and say, actually, I can take my business in, you know, in a slightly different direction, I can start to actually consult in areas of the business that previously have just been seen as a technology partner. So that's a great opportunity for the Microsoft Partner Community is as much As for Microsoft so. I was gonna say wait where do we see this all going next? You know we've got ignite coming up and over next year, but I think Steve, you've got nailed it. There really is that opportunity to consult and a lot of this stuff is is huge. But I guess anyone elsewhere. What do we think is going to come with? This is big announcement, but it feels a lot more coming still. Well, thankfully not rename. I think that the Dodge that one this time so well done. So if you if you search Bing for Viva topics, at least as of today, you get something about urology so. Hoping that's not gonna be around for too long, but I think I think the thing that we're going to see is. Different areas focusing on different areas of this. You know, in the same way that so many platforms you know they are platforms and there are areas of specialization. You know it's it. Kind of reminds me a bit about dynamics. You know you've got different core pillars that you say I'm going to invest in this capability and then I'm going to extend it. I'm going to get partner products in and apps that are going to extend what that does and then I can then join this up to this other part and it's kind of feels like. That as a platform, and I think what we'll see is certain people focusing on different areas. There will be areas of interest. You know syntax. The AI search in the topics. You'll have the workplace analytics folks kind of moving into the insights you'll have the comms people moving into, the connections you know you'll have. People starting to really kind of dig into it a lot and we will get more and more understanding of. As a platform, what it is capable of offering? As we learn more about each of those those core pillars that it's currently offering. And then you know, I think you know, within a year they'll probably say, alright, we can might introduce another pillar. Can I stay theoretically? They've they've really thought this one through and built it as a genuine platform that is scalable to bring other. Capabilities into other capabilities in terms of you know, new features in each of those pillars, but also additional pillars as well. So what you're saying, Alice, that that left bar on teams they're going to bring more space 'cause there's going to be a lot coming there soon? All all they're gonna have a much, much more intuitive interface where you just think it just pops up. Yeah, but yeah, joking aside, I think you're right and I think the partners bringing in finding their capabilities, finding not necessary the gaps. But the opportunities within that is where it's going to be really interesting as well. Seeing that brought even further and even cleverer keeping Microsoft in their toes. And I I like that Microsoft kind of putting that opportunity out to people as well. Interesting types verifique. That is probably about there where we need to wrap up and get on with their, but will put a whole load links in the show notes. So if you haven't heard about Viva, there's some great videos. I highly recommend the the opening video that Sacha Deeds because that story behind it just tells you so much more. Don't don't do that. A key thing and just go and look at the technology because you it won't make sense. I think we've all seen that when we did that it didn't make sense. Listening to that story and realize where it's going to go. Think about that, brands. Because that that is such the power of it. Thank you Steve. That was really good. Really great to hear that side and different perspective of things as well. So it's been a pleasure. Thanks guys. And otherwise we will leave you and speak to you all in a couple of weeks. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Grey Hat Beard podcast. The song drink up Metis was blocked to you by black Bones under a noncommercial Attribution License.